Asia Kate Dillon made history—and earned three consecutive Critics Choice Award nominations—with the role of Taylor Mason in Billions, becoming the first nonbinary actor to portray a nonbinary character on a major American television series. Series like Orange Is the New Black, The Simpsons, Master of None, and Younger and the movie John Wick 3: Parabellum are among their many other memorable screen credits.
Their latest film role, in writer-director Elena Oxman’s delicate, poignant and compelling feature debut Outerlands, sees Dillon take on the lead character of Cass, who is juggling multiple jobs as they struggle to make ends meet and hold their life together in a gentrified San Francisco. Following a one-night stand with their co-worker Kalli (Louisa Krause), Cass agrees to take care of her 11-year-old daughter, Ari (Ridley Asha Batemen), while she goes out of town. As days pass without any word from Kalli, Cass and Ari begin to form a bond that spirals Cass back to their own difficult childhood and the pain they’ve been running from. The film also features Dillon’s Billions co-star Daniel K. Isaac and queer icon Lea DeLaria in standout supporting roles.
Following its world premiere at SXSW and its international premiere at BFI Flare: London LGBTQIA+ Film Festival, Outerlands has gone on to win audience awards at Turin’s Pride Lovers Film Festival and Wicked Queer: Boston LGBTQ+ Film Festival and was the opening night selection at Inside Out Toronto 2SLGBTQ+ Film Festival. The film is now available to buy or rent on Prime Video and other VOD platforms from Wolfe Video.
Here, Asia Kate Dillon, who also produced Outerlands through their production company MIRROR/FIRE, speaks exclusively with The Queer Review’s editor James Kleinmann about why they were initially drawn to Oxman’s screenplay, how they connected with their character, and share their favourite LGBTQ+ culture.
James Kleinmann, The Queer Review: what were some of the things that spoke to you when you first read Elena Oxman’s screenplay that made you want to be part of telling this story, both as an actor and producer?
Asia Kate Dillon: “The script that Elena sent me was beautifully written. It said a lot without saying too much. My character, Cass, is a person of few words, but what they do say really lands with whichever character they’re interacting with. As an actor, I’m looking for writing that is clear and vulnerable and that offers me some real truth about the human condition. Elena’s script had all of that in spades. I’m looking for parts that are going to challenge me to go to emotional or physical places that are potentially new for me. It felt really important to me to play a nonbinary trans protagonist in a film that is not about that character’s transness or their nonbinariness. It’s actually just a slice of life story about a person trying to get through these moments in their life which we witness in the film.”
“Elena had written me a really beautiful letter accompanying that first script and it became clear to me right away that we shared a lot of influences, from film to music to artists. There was a real camaraderie between us right from the start. Everything about the project—from the director to the script, to the character that I’d be playing, to the other actors who we were hopefully going to get to join us—was just a win-win across the board for me.”
I love that subtlety that you were talking about in the writing. There isn’t dialogue unless there needs to be and nothing is overexplained, including Cass’s gender identity and sexuality. In the production notes, Elena comments that “the main character’s queerness isn’t the focal point of the story and yet queerness infuses every frame.”
“Yeah, they’re a wonderful writer.”
How did you approach playing Cass and what were some of the things that you connected with about the character?
“When I read the script, I told Elena that Cass reminded me a lot of River Phoenix’s character, Chris Chambers, in the film Stand By Me. I could see that character growing up and being similar to Cass. River Phoenix is a huge inspiration for me as a performer and Elena said that she’d actually had River in mind when writing Cass. So that was one piece of synchronicity. Then there were little things like the Peter Pan line. Peter Pan is such a seminal piece of literature for me as a queer person and so that also felt synchronistic.”
“I received the script at a time in my life when I was beginning my journey towards reparenting and healing my own inner child. That journey will never end, but I did begin it in earnest around the time that I got the script. I thought, wow, this character is on the precipice of going on that same journey that I am going on myself. Because of the pandemic and the writers’ strike, production kept getting pushed back, and so by the time we got to make the film I was two and a half years further into my healing than I had been back then. So I was personally further away from Cass’ experience in the film than I was when I first read it.”
“In terms of preparing to play the character, it was really important to Elena and I to have some one-on-one rehearsal time to go through every scene and to work on Cass’ physicality. The costume is always key for me in terms of physicality. Cass wears flat sneakers for the majority of the film and they really change the way that you walk. So Cass’ gait is very different from mine. Then I had to figure out their vocal range. They never speak in a very high or very low register, they’re always somewhere in the middle. All of that stuff is really fun to figure out. Then it was about diving into the deeper emotional plateaus and valleys for the character.”
“As a producer, I worked in collaboration with Elena to make sure that we were telling the story in the most clear, loving and thoughtful way. The audience is so important to us, they are the last piece of the alchemy that goes into creating the finished piece of art that is the film. We made the film we wanted to make and had the audience very much in mind while we were making it.”
You mentioned reparenting and healing your inner child. I love the exercise that Lea DeLaria’s character brings up about writing to one’s younger self and being in dialogue with them. It is such a powerful idea because it is really easy to feel disconnected from our younger selves. The film made me reflect on that and I might have to try that exercise.
“That’s awesome that it got you to reflect and that you’re potentially inspired to try that exercise. I feel like the film is beautifully simple in so many ways. As you said, nothing is too heavy-handed, nothing is hitting you over the head. I think that the simple and yet profound message of Outerlands is that you can take control of your own healing. You can care for the wounded parts of yourself because they need your care.”
Caretaking, and whether or not someone is ready and willing to be cared for, is a major theme in the film. Ari and Cass are both quite resistant to someone caring for them, aren’t they?
“You’re right, caretaking is a huge part of the film’s storyline. That care can come from family and in the queer community, more often than not, it comes from chosen family because as queer people we have to find each other in order to survive. That’s been happening since the beginning. Sadly, but also not sadly, because found family is beautiful. Ultimately, we all need to let ourselves be cared for. You can’t force care upon someone who won’t take it. Someone actually has to be willing to accept help and accept care. Caretaking is a two-way street and I think that’s one of the messages of the film too. You can’t ever care for somebody else if you don’t let yourself be cared for because care is a relationship of reciprocity.”
A lot of that comes into Cass’ scenes with Lea DeLaria’s character, Denise, who works at the local bank branch. Lea is fantastic in the film and whenever I see her I think about the history of queer film and TV over the last few decades becuase she has been part of so much of it. It feels like her character represents the last remaining part of the queer community in a hyper-gentrified San Francisco.
“Lea and I met on Orange is the New Black and she is a consummate performer and professional. When Elena and I spoke after she sent me the script, we both said, ‘So this has to be Lea DeLaria, right?’ There was nobody else in our minds. She is a queer icon, particularly of a certain time in San Francisco, and she’s an incredible actor. I knew that I needed Denise to be played by someone who I could be really vulnerable with and who could really hold me. Lea doesn’t get to play parts like this very often. It’s a supporting character, but one who has a full story arc and a backstory, and she gets to be her funny, childlike, clown self. It was so fun to play those scenes with her and I’m glad that people get to see this work of hers because I love it so much.”
We have to talk about your young co-star in the film, Ridley Asha Bateman, who plays Ari because she gives a really extraordinary performance. I love all of your scenes together.
“I agree, she is wonderful in the film. This is a generalization, but child actors tend to have a lot of bad, actory habits and Ridley doesn’t have any of them. Ridley is totally grounded and present and always really listening and not putting on any kind of affectation. She also really took direction and changed the way that she did things when guided to. We spent time rehearsing together which was great and rare for an independent film. Generally, you get in there on the day and have to shoot your scenes. Rehearsal allowed us to get to know each other. I learned how to ride a scooter for the film and so we did scooter training together which was fun. I know I look like I’ve been doing it for years, but I haven’t! Ridely and I had a blast on this film and I could not have asked for a better scene partner. That scene at the cave is so emotional and fiery and Ridley was so game for all of it. She’s amazing.”
Lastly, what’s your favourite piece of LGBTQ+ culture or a person who identifies as LGBTQ+; someone or something that’s had an impact on you and resonated with you over the years?
“Oh gosh, ask me on a different day and you might get a different answer, but at this moment two things come to mind. One is the author and witness, James Baldwin, who is a seminal writer and a queer icon. Every time I pick up his writing, he reaches into my soul and into my heart and opens it a little bit and shifts it a little and heals it a little. Every time I read his words, or hear him speak, or watch videos of him I feel that.”
“The other is the film Bound by the Wachowskis. It was their first film and that movie rocked my whole world. I saw it when I was around 19 and I didn’t know that queer cinema could be that hot and look that good and be that well-written and that well-executed with that caliber of actors. It is a stunning film. Also, before an intimacy coordinator was a thing in movies, they had an intimacy coordinator choreograph that sex scene with Gina Gershon and Jennifer Tilly. You can really feel the amount of care that went into making that film when you watch it. It’s still one of my favorite movies of all time. I watch it a couple of times a year. There’s a sex scene in Outerlands and we used Bound as our inspiration for how we wanted to shoot it and how we wanted it to feel, so I hope that the Wachowskis are pleased with that homage.”
By James Kleinmann
Outerlands, which world premiered at SXSW Film & TV Festival and received its international premiere at BFI Flare: London LGBTQIA+ Film Festival, is now available to buy or rent on Prime Video and other VOD platforms from Wolfe Video.