When a newly single Miranda (Cynthia Nixon) encountered BBC producer Joy, played by British actress Dolly Wells, in front of the United Nations building towards the end of the second season of And Just Like That… sparks flew. Season three of the Sex and the City spin-off, currently debuting Thursdays on Max, has seen Miranda and Joy share their first kiss and begin to refer to themselves as girlfriends with Miranda introducing Joy to her son Brady (Niall Cunningham) in the latest episode.
Before becoming a recurring cast member on And Just Like That…, Wells was already part of the HBO family having co-created, co-written and co-starred in the beloved comedy series Doll & Em alongside her real-life best friend Emily Mortimer, with the pair playing fictional versions of themselves on two seasons. She went on to make her feature debut as writer-director with 2019’s Brooklyn-set Good Posture, which premiered at Tribeca, featuring Mortimer, Nat Wolff, Timm Sharp, Grace Van Pattenand and John Early. Wells appeared opposite Melissa McCarthy in Can You Ever Forgive Me?, played Woney, one of the smug marrieds in the Bridget Jones movies, portrayed Sally in Andrew Haigh’s Oscar-nominated 45 Years and played a therapist in last year’s Babygirl. Her list of acting credits also includes turns on hit shows like Hacks, Portlandia, Younger, and the cult British comedy Peep Show.
With episode six of the third season of And Just Like That… now streaming on Max, Dolly Wells speaks exclusively with The Queer Review’s editor James Kleinmann about joining the Sex and the City universe and portraying finding love in New York a little later in life.
James Kleinmann, The Queer Review: let’s start with New York because we’re both Brits living here and of course it’s such a big part of And Just Like That… as it was with the original series. How would you describe your own relationship with NYC?
Dolly Wells: “I really love New York. I made a film called Good Posture about five years ago that was kind of love letter to the city. I don’t think I would’ve dared to make if I’d still lived in England. It was set where I live in Brooklyn, between Clinton Hill and Bed–Stuy. There’s something wonderful about moving somewhere a little bit later in life, at an age when you stop worrying about whether your shoes are cool, or whether someone fancies you. You’re looking out a lot more. You really observe things. There’s something about not being from New York but coming to live here, that makes you feel like you’re having a new chance at something. My children live in New York with me and I discover different things through them too. I have this love affair with New York.”
“I moved to New York in 2013, but I didn’t want to leave London. I’d lived in London my whole life, in a very particular part of West London. I’d get lost if I left my street! I found London thrilling. I loved going for auditions in Soho and exploring East London. So I was begrudging about moving to New York, except for the fact that my best friend Emily lived here. But beyond that I didn’t really have anything in NYC, so I was nervous about it, but there’s so much about this city that I really love.”
“When I first moved here, I can remember thinking it was like being in an opera. If I was in the post office, I felt like people were going to burst into song at any point because there’s such a community feel of everybody talking to each other about New York itself like it’s a badge of honor. At the beginning, I was like, ‘Oh, okay, whatever! Why is everyone chatting to each other on the tube?!’ Which I now call the subway. But there’s something really wonderful about it.”
“It feels like everyone helps to get each other through, because it’s a pretty tough city. It’s incredibly expensive. There’s a real discrepancy between the haves and have-nots. The weather is so extreme. Everything is so extreme. There’s no National Health Service like we’ve got in the UK. On a good day, especially now with the possibility of this new mayor, you feel like everybody has each other’s backs in a way that that maybe you don’t have to as much in England.”
When it comes to the original Sex and the City series, I believe you didn’t watch it until you were cast in And Just Like That… . What did you make of it when you finally saw it?
“Oh my gosh, I couldn’t stop watching it. It was like being on a Sex and the City holiday because I watched it all over about three weeks. I don’t know how I didn’t watch it before. I don’t know what I was doing with my life, I wasn’t doing anything very exciting! I really enjoyed watching it and it was so intense because it was a condensed experience over such a short period of time, being completely immersed in this world. I really loved it and I think it made the leap from Sex and the City to And Just Like That… less jarring, because I literally went from one episode to the next. I couldn’t believe that I was entering this world myself. It felt thrilling.”
A very important question for you, when you were watching Sex and the City, which of the four lead characters did you identify with the most? Essentially, are you a Carrie, Miranda, Charlotte or a Samantha?
“I didn’t identify that much with any of them in that I think I had a much squarer youth in that regard because I met my ex-husband and got married very young, so I didn’t feel like I had as many romances. I adored them all, but Miranda was the one that I clicked with. I couldn’t imagine being a lawyer or doing any of that work, but I found her experiences the most relatable. They’re all amazing characters, but I’d say Miranda.”
How would you describe your character Joy and what is your approach to playing her?
“I really love her and I’d actually like to be more like her. She’s very hardworking and very bright. She reminds me a tiny bit of Anna, the character I played in Can You Ever Forgive Me? Anna worked in a book shop and her life was so much about her work that she wasn’t out in the real world that much. Although Joy absolutely is and she travels everywhere and she’s very successful and high powered and clever, there’s also something about her that has shut herself off from being too hurt. She hasn’t had a long-term girlfriend before. She says that she doesn’t like girlfriends’ children, that doesn’t work well for her, so she’s got dogs instead.”
“I was so thrilled that they wanted me to be a part of And Just Like That… . I didn’t find out too much about Joy when I was in the last season. I only knew that she was a producer at the BBC, but I didn’t know much else. So it was exciting to get all the scripts for season three and at the read-through I felt like a child going to Disneyland or something. I was so thrilled to even have a read-through because that doesn’t happen much anymore, especially after COVID. So suddenly I was there with all the girls and executive producers Michael Patrick King—MPK—who I really adore, and John Melfi, who is so wonderful too. The excitement carried me along and I tried to think of people I knew who had Joy’s job and I just went with it. I also love all the clothes that I get to wear as Joy.”
I love the chemistry between Joy and Miranda. The scenes are sweet and romantic and funny. The breathing exercise earlier this season was lovely, where Joy was teaching Miranda how to relax on camera. Then there was their first kiss and their first sleepover. What were those scenes like to shoot?
“The breathing scene was really exciting to shoot because we were in the coolest bar on the Lower East Side. It was so amazing to be shooting on these actual locations. We were there with these very glamorous extras and MPK was like a conductor, knowing exactly what he wanted in this gorgeous bar and we were all so beautifully dressed. I remember feeling quite nervous to shoot that scene because of all the extras and I wanted to get it exactly right. But it’s such a lovely and sexy moment between them.”
“Cynthia is a total dream. She’s so fun to act with and she’s so good at acting. She’s really funny, she’s really generous, and I really admire her. I was very excited that this was the person who I was going to be doing these scenes with.”
“With Miranda coming to sleep over at Joy’s apartment, it was exciting sartorially. I had some very cool knickers on with this kimono, which was Missoni I think. It’s this whole other world. My apartment as Joy was lovely too. That scene was gorgeous. Also, as Joy I’ve got these two dogs, so it was also about trying to get the dogs to be happy too!”
“The relationship between Joy and Miranda feels so hopeful, sweet and romantic. It makes you think you can find someone at any age. Everybody goes through all these things, but these women have just found each other and it almost feels a bit too good to be true. It feels so easy. When you’re younger, you think that things are supposed to be terribly painful for you to really care about somebody. That they have to not call you back and your heart has to race and you have to hate yourself. Whereas these two women find each other and they have a really nice time together and I love that. It’s really heartening and I think they’re well-matched.”
It’s touching when Joy meets Brady and just before he arrives they say the word girlfriend for the first time.
“I loved that scene. Niall, who plays Brady, and Cynthia are so great together. They’re brilliant and so convincing as mother and son so I really didn’t have to act very much. It was just a sense of, it’s lovely being part of this. I only had to worry about the dogs behaving properly, these tiny thin Whippets. Their owner would give them little bits of pizza to make them behave as we needed for the shot. We also shot that on the sidewalk right in the middle of town. They’re all so used to doing that and they’re all so brilliant about the fact that there are people constantly walking past shouting ‘Miranda!’ or ‘Carrie!'”
A lot of Sex and the City fans had a soft spot for Steve and some And Just Like That… viewers had strong opinions about Miranda dating Che. Did you have any trepidation about what people might make of Joy?
“Yes! Oh my gosh, definitely. First of all, I haven’t been involved in anything like this before where people are so invested in a series and the characters. This is people’s lives. These are their friends. So I definitely did feel a bit of trepidation. I don’t want to speak too soon because they may suddenly hate Joy. I knew that there was such a strong feeling about Che, so, yes, there was some trepidation for sure.”
Cynthia has been playing Miranda since the late 90s. What was it like to step into such an established world as an actor?
“Do you know what it is? Without sounding too nice, the reason it must have been going on for so long is because they all seem to have a really great time doing it. It’s all of them, but MPK and John Melfi especially make for this situation where it’s pretty hard not to feel thrilled about being part of it. It’s really fun being directed by him because he’s so quick and clever and charming and has such joy for everything. I was coming into something where I was so impressed. I was like, you guys have been doing this for such a long time, but this must be why because you’re all loving it so much.”
“They’re doing it for themselves in a way, otherwise they wouldn’t still be doing it. It feels like Cynthia hasn’t got to think about being Miranda, because she has been Miranda for so long. It gave me confidence and an extra feeling of belief that I really was in this world because there they are all so in it. When Carrie’s opening her front door to you, that is exactly what’s happening. It doesn’t matter if you’re on a stage, the door is being opened to you by this wonderful woman in these incredible clothes that she looks so amazing in and you feel like you are entering these friends’ homes. It felt really fun when Joy comes over to Carrie’s house.”
It’s still very rare that we get a show like this that is centred on women in their late 50s isn’t it?
“I know! Massively. I’m very old myself anyway, but I sort of felt like I was going to school and they were the slightly older girls and I was thinking, you make getting a bit older look so cool. They’re all beautiful. They’re so curious. They’re so involved in their lives and other people’s lives and their causes and reading and politics. So as actresses, I was very admiring of them, but also to be on the show was incredible.”
“It’s so important because when you don’t show things, whatever it is, you can’t picture it. That’s what’s been wonderful in the last few years now that the world has opened up and there’s a chance to not only show very young white heterosexual people in the stories that are being told. You see everybody’s story and you realize, of course, that people in their early, mid, or late 50s and early 60s, want to get nicely dressed up and go on dates and eat in nice restaurants and talk about relevant things and gossip. Why on Earth haven’t we seen this before? It’s really wonderful and it’s unapologetic. I love that too. Why not have people wearing brilliant clothes and not have to be ironic or making some statement about something. You can just have this fantasy world that people can really enjoy. I think it’s great.”
You were already part of the HBO family with with the beloved series Doll & Em. Would you like to revisit those characters at some point?
“Desperately. Em and I both really want to do a third season because we had a blast doing it. It was so sweet at the read-through for And Just Like That… because all the girls from the show were so lovely about it. They were all Doll & Em fans. That made me so excited, I couldn’t believe it.”
By James Kleinmann
The first six episodes of And Just Like That… season three are now streaming on Max. New episodes debut Thursdays at 9pm ET/6pm PT. The 12-episode season will conclude with the season finale on August 14th.
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