Baby Reindeer, based on British creator-writer-star Richard Gadd’s real-life experience of being stalked, has fast become one of the most talked about, and acclaimed, television shows of the year. Released on April 11th, it remains the number one series in the US and the UK on Netflix. Outside of the UK, it might appear to have come out of nowhere, but Gadd first performed the one-man stage show that the series is adapted from at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in 2019 and went on to win an Olivier Award for its West End transfer.
Dealing with themes of addiction, shame, trauma, and sexual assault in a raw, honest, and immediate way, with a dark strand of humour throughout, Baby Reindeer is utterly compelling, richly nuanced, and deeply affecting. Alongside Gadd, who plays bartender and aspiring stand-up comedian Donny Dunn, Jessica Gunning (who appeared in the 2014 movie Pride) stars as Martha, who Donny offers a cup of tea to one day at the pub where he works, marking the beginning of her obsession with him. The series also features an indelible performance by the luminous Nava Mau as therapist Teri, a trans woman whom Donny begins to tentatively date before gradually opening up to her.
Mau was last seen on screen as the warm and wise aunt Ana in Daniel and Zelda Barnz‘s gone-too-soon LGBTQ+ series Genera+ion. Before that she appeared in and produced April Maxey’s short film Work which premiered at Sundance. Mau wrote, produced, directed, and starred in the moving short film Waking Hour, that premiered at Outfest Fusion in 2019. She also produced the short films Sam’s Town and Lovebites, and was a production fellow on Sam Feder’s groundbreaking Netflix documentary Disclosure. Away from the arts, Mau has extensive experience in the fields of healing justice and culture change with community-based service providers and student organizations, and has worked with immigrant and LGBTQ+ survivors of violence.
Speaking exclusively with The Queer Review’s editor James Kleinmann, Nava Mau shares her first reaction to the script for Baby Reindeer, her approach to playing Teri, her experience of working with Richard Gadd and Jessica Gunning, and what the audience’s response to the show means to her.
James Kleinmann, The Queer Review: Baby Reindeer really got under my skin. It’s visceral and moving and funny. I watched it last week and I’m still digesting it and thinking about it in a way that I haven’t about a piece of art that I’ve encountered in a really long time. What was your reaction when you first read the series?
Nava Mau: “It came in as an audition. Initially, I only had the first episode and one scene to audition with. Then for the second audition, I got the whole series. At that point, I was all in. I could not stop reading. I was so moved by Richard’s vulnerability. It’s the greatest gift to read a character like Teri who is so layered and unencumbered. I could feel that she has this pulse that emanates from her being and I was really drawn to her. I just couldn’t put it down. The same way that people are watching it now is what it was like for me to read it.”
In what ways did you connect with Teri as a character?
“The dynamic between Teri and Donny is one that’s very familiar to me, so I was able to get that very quickly. It was actually more work to figure out what the differentiating lines between me and Teri were. That’s where I feel the magic of acting really happens, in that stretch between yourself and someone else. So it was really fun for me to figure out who this woman is and why she is the way she is. I had to figure out what has been different in her life that has made her who she is today. I wish I was as witty and as funny as Teri. I wish I was so sharp.”
You mention that Teri’s funny, and given the themes that Baby Reindeer deals with it’s interesting that it’s still such a funny show. Obviously, not every moment is a laugh-out-loud funny, but what are your thoughts on the fact that there is a lot of humour in this series?
“It’s just like real life. We go through every day and we don’t necessarily know what is going to meet us and I think the same is true for all the characters on the show. Richard is a comedian first and foremost, so I think that there was always going to be comedy in the show whether he wanted there to be or not. Without that lightness, that feels like it’s the spark, I don’t think the show would work. It would maybe feel like it was too far to try to reach the audience. I think it’s perfect that it has that element of comedy.”
What was it like to work with Richard, particularly given that the series is based on his own experiences?
“What a unique situation to be playing the love interest for somebody who is the creator, writer, showrunner, and star of this story that’s based on his own real life and that deals with some really heavy topics. We’re talking about sexual abuse, we’re talking about trauma, we’re talking about shame. So I really brought an awareness with me at all times of the reality, which is that this is a very personal story. Ultimately, this is a story told by a survivor about what he’s experienced so I wanted to make sure that I brought my best and I wanted to make sure that whatever the story needed I could try to meet that requirement. It meant a lot to me to have the honour of helping Richard tell this story. I think it’s so important for survivors to tell their own stories and I’m so glad that the world seems to be ready to have those conversations.”
It is rare that we see men be so open about their emotional lives and that we hear survivor’s stories from men, not just on screen, but in everyday life too. What are your thoughts on that?
“We live in a world that really encourages men to stay silent about their pain about their trauma and it creates a cycle of shame. Then other people end up being on the receiving end of that cycle of shame. So, if we want to create a different world, we need to break that cycle and I think that step one is breaking the silence. I hope that people can see that that’s what this show is trying to do.”
Thinking about Donny’s shame, there’s a striking scene that happens on the tube where he is so worried that he has been identified as being on a date with a trans woman by two guys sitting on the train that he gets off and leaves Teri on her own. As far as the audience’s perspective goes, I think we’re really with the character of Teri and we haven’t seen that much before in the depiction of trans characters on screen. Was that something that struck you about that scene and in the overall writing?
“Richard’s writing really has a way of getting inside the minds of the other characters, so I had great material to work with. At that moment in the story, we’re really seeing the ways that Donny’s shame has made him afraid to be seen, even by himself. I don’t think he wants to see himself, he doesn’t want to look in the mirror because he’s afraid of what he will see. Of course, as the story unfolds, we find out all the things that he’s afraid to see from his past. Teri can sense that and I think that at that point in time Teri is maybe thinking, ‘I can show him the way, I’m not afraid to be seen, I’ve looked and it didn’t scare me’. So it’s heartbreaking when she realizes that she can try all she can, she can be as strong as she is, and it still might not be enough to break through the walls that he has built up. You have to have that surge of hope that she has which then leads to the heartbreak of it.”
As you mentioned, Teri is a really layered character and completely integral to the narrative. We see a trans woman who has a career, she has a great apartment, she’s got a circle of friends, she’s having an adventure living abroad in London. These are all things that we expect to be able to say about any character in a series, but unfortunately we haven’t been able to describe a lot of trans characters in that way because often they’re solely characterized by their identity. It shouldn’t be something that I need to even mention, but it is significant isn’t it?
“100%! As Sam Feder’s documentary Disclosure has shown us, the history of trans representation in film and television has been so severely limited and in fact has often been intentionally dehumanizing. Part of that is stripping away all these other facets of trans people’s lives: jobs; friends; intimate relationships; personality. We’re real people and we’ve always been here and we’re everywhere. You can’t take that away from us. I really did feel so blessed to be able to play a character that felt fleshed out in that way.”
There’s a traumatic scene with Jessica Gunning who plays Martha that happens in a pub where she attacks Teri. What was that like for you to approach and shoot?
“Obviously, it’s a very intense scene. There’s raw emotion from everybody involved in that scene. It’s what I was most afraid of in taking on this role. I really didn’t know if I could do it. What I learned is that I had to focus on the emotional landscape that leads Teri to where she is and that all of a sudden gets ripped off. i had to focus on what’s underneath there, what’s in the history, what’s in the psyche, in the subconscious, that then gets exposed all of a sudden. When we finally filmed it I just experienced it. I had to really allow myself to feel it. I had to allow myself to really be there and then I had to come back out. The only way I could do it was that I knew that I was going to be able to come back out.”
“It was like it all came at once when we were filming, but I know that one of the things that I really felt and explored in that moment was Teri’s fear of abandonment. As confident as she is and as hopeful as she is, I think there is this deep fear that she’ll never be good enough and that no one will ever stay. I think that moment brings all of that up for her.”
When people see the whole series, they’ll realize that it is completely integral to the narrative, but did you have any reservations about doing that scene, which is a depiction of a trans woman being attacked?
“I think that this story has value because it’s based on reality. I think that the way that it’s told shows us so many different perspectives and I also think that we get to see Teri over time. We’re not only seeing her on that day, that’s not her last scene and then we’re left thinking, ‘oh, I wonder what happened to Teri after that?’ We actually get to see the emotional impact of violence like that and I think that is meaningful storytelling. As you said, when you take it as part of the whole story, you can see that it’s integral to what this story is trying to communicate. So it all made sense to me.”
How was your London experience while you were shooting Baby Reindeer?
“I mostly would land and then start work that same day sometimes. I’d work every day and then fly back home because I filmed in chunks and I wasn’t there for the whole production. So I didn’t get to experience enough of the city, but I went to a pub once and I went to a museum. I got to see some of the city, but for the most part my experience was working with the crew and Richard and Jess. It was a wonderful way to meet London for the first time and hopefully it won’t be the last time.”
Baby Reindeer has been such a massive hit globally on Netflix. What does it mean to you to know that such a large audience is watching the show, reacting to it and engaging with its themes?
“It’s beyond what any of us imagined and I am so grateful that people are receiving the show with such open hearts and for the conversations that are happening. From the texts that I’m getting from people like my neighbors and my dad’s childhood friends and my old therapist, it’s clear that people are engaging with the series. All you can ever hope for as an artist is for people to really receive it with their heart and I can only hope that that continues. I’m so grateful for all of it.”
Last time we spoke, I asked you for your favourite piece of LGBTQ+ culture and you mentioned the series Her Story created by and starring Jen Richards and Laura Zak with Angelica Ross. I’d like to ask you the question again, but you can’t give the same answer!
“Sort Of. It’s a Canadian series created by Bilal Baig, but it’s available on Max in the US, and there are multiple seasons now. Wow! It’s so funny and so filled with heart. You’re seeing a variety of different people and their different experiences. It’s a show created by a queer person and I think it means a lot in terms of representation of trans and nonbinary people. You really care about the characters and it’s also trying to say something. It’s an incredible work.”
By James Kleinmann
Baby Reindeer is streaming globally on Netflix.