GLAAD Award-nominated actor, singer, activist and RuPaul’s Drag Race season 9 runner-up Peppermint has blazed a trail on Broadway and made an impact on screen in shows like Harlem and movies like Fire Island, as well as appearing as herself in the reality show Traitors. In addition to continuing to serve on the board of GLAAD, the Out 100 honouree became ACLU’s first Artist Ambassador for Trans Justice in 2021.
Her supporting role as Peppermint, a smart, caring and vivacious New York drag club owner, in Michelle Buteau’s Survival of the Thickest (inspired by Buteau’s acclaimed book of essays) has been expanded for the second season of the acclaimed Netflix comedy series. Season two sees Peppermint decide to tie the knot with the dashing Harrison (Dan Amboyer), whom she has known since high school, with Buteau’s character Mavis taking on styling duties for the wedding and reception, including a showstopping performance by the House of Balenciaga.
With seasons one and two of Survival of the Thickest now streaming on Netflix, Peppermint speaks exclusively with The Queer Review’s editor James Kleinmann about her earliest memories of being an entertainer, what moved her about her character’s wedding, and why Prince made an indelible impression on her.
James Kleinmann, The Queer Review: I live in New York now, but I grew up in the UK and spent many a Friday and Saturday night in my late teens and twenties at G-A-Y in London, so I loved seeing all the photos and videos of you performing at Heaven on Saturday night. How was that show?
Peppermint: “It was amazing to be back. I’ve performed at G-A-Y over the years, both at the Astoria back in the day and at Heaven, and have always loved it. I had a great time and loved seeing Jeremy Joseph and his crew there. The party is still going strong. It was also a somber situation though considering the UK Supreme Court’s declaration about trans existence that week.”
“Obviously, that was a tough blow for the UK queer community, but also worldwide. It felt like one win for a certain children’s book author; an overly successful one, but unbelievably vapid with an increasingly striking resemblance to one their own villains. A children’s storybook writer—who I won’t name—who looks like Voldemort more and more. They’re turning into Voldemort. So it was a tough one, but it was great to be able to participate in the march in London last weekend that saw thousands upon thousands of people marching for trans rights. That was wonderful to see and to be a part of.”
Taking you back, when did the performer in you first emerge and how did that manifest in your life?
“My mom tells me that I was always hamming it up for the family as a youngster. I remember doing productions in my living room of things like The Wizard of Oz, naturally, and Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. I was reenacting those movies with makeshift costumes that I pulled out of the closet or that I would put together myself. I was really theatrical from an early age, but that’s probably no surprise. I think many people in entertainment were at least a little bit theatrical as kids. So from my very earliest memories I was a performer, but it never even occurred to me that I could do it as a career until until I’d nearly finished high school.”
Then you went on to major in musical theatre didn’t you?
“That’s right. Once I realized that I wasn’t going to be a chemist—not that I’d ever had any dreams of it myself—but once my failures were finally successfully communicated to everybody else and it was clear that I was not going to be a chemist, someone had the notion to suggest that I go to a performing arts college. From that moment on my dreams were set.”
Did you set your sights on heading to New York then too?
“I actually applied to go to Philadelphia School of the Arts which was closer to home for me. I only chose there because the pamphlet had a bunch of queers on the cover and when I saw that I was like, ‘Oh, these look like my people!’ I just wanted to be where the queers were. But when I didn’t get accepted there, I applied to the American Musical and Dramatic Academy here in New York. I got in, much to my surprise, and the rest is herstory.”
Let’s talk about Survival of the Thickest. I’ve loved every moment of both seasons. It’s so fun to watch, what is it like to be a part of?
“It’s a blast to be part of the cast. I’ve done film and television before but this is definitely the largest role that I’ve had in any project to date and I’m really grateful, especially for it to be on such a large platform like Netflix. Working with Michelle Buteau is a dream. She’s the real deal. She really focuses on community and on having a good working relationship with everyone in front of and behind the camera. It’s really important for her to be as inclusive and diverse as possible. A lot of people talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk, but Michelle really walks that walk, in addition to talking the talk.”
“She wants her version of New York—which is a more realistic version—to be portrayed on screen. New York appears on screen a lot, but there’s the movie version of New York and then there’s the real version. In the 90s, there were shows like Friends and the Sex and the City, but that portrayal of the city didn’t translate to what it’s really like for a lot of people, mostly because of the lack of diversity. Those shows got dragged for that. It wasn’t until its ninth season that Friends had a recurring Black character.”
“With Survival of the Thickest, Michelle and her collaborators are showing a really diverse New York and I think that’s fantastic. It’s the truth, it’s accurate, and it’s not just about it being a mix of races and genders, but it also shows people going to drag bars, like everybody does. Who lives in New York City and hasn’t been to a drag brunch? Hello!”
I love that it’s so entertaining, but it also has something meaningful to say. There are themes like self-acceptance and self-empowerment in there and the message that women come in all shapes and sizes and that’s something that should be celebrated. It’s the world that needs to change to catch up with accepting that and not the other way around. Women don’t need to change anything about themselves. How does that resonate with you?
“That’s 100% true. I love that theme of self-acceptance and not only self-acceptance, but also the acceptance of others. It’s great if a woman feels good about her own body, but it’s even better for us to see the body of a woman that we’re not used to seeing being loved and adored and sexed and romanced on screen. I have lots of curvy friends who love the way they look in the mirror, but it would be great if we got to see curvy women lusted after and chased and adored and loved the way that they are in real life on screen. That’s what we get on Survival of the Thickest and it’s something that I’d not seen before.”
“The sex scene at the beginning of season two between Marouane Zotti’s character Luca and Michelle’s character Mavis was giving me the vapors, darling! It was beautiful to be able to see that kind of connection and I’m looking forward to the day where we can see a trans woman loved and adored in the same way instead of being fetishized or sexualized. I want to see a trans woman loved and adored and then also sexualized—but not only sexualized—if that makes sense. I think that’s more likely to happen on this show than any other show that’s on the air right now.”
“In terms of what you were saying beyond self-acceptance, about whether or not a woman needs to change herself—which she certainly doesn’t—that is interesting for me because I did change my body and my life to fit the woman that I am. So the notion that a woman doesn’t need to, and shouldn’t have to, but certainly should change if she wants to—and can be empowered and valued in that and still seen as being valid as a woman—really resonates with me. Especially with the conversations that we’re having today about who’s a valid woman and who’s not, and what body type is valid. Women should not have to change themselves to fit the narrative, but if a woman decides to change herself to fit her own narrative, her being accepted by others and society is great to witness on screen.”
Peppermint and her wedding storyline are integral to the second season and it impacts other characters. For instance, Tone Bell’s character Khalil paints this beautiful portrait inspired by his friendship with Peppermint and what he sees in her. He talks about your character so admiringly and says that she’s boundaryless. All of that is so beautiful to see.
“Seeing a trans woman lusted after only, or fetishized or sexualized or talked about in a way that’s just about the way her body looks, is something that we’re used to seeing, both in stories and in the news. But seeing platonic relationships between men and women, especially cisgender heterosexual men and trans women, is rare. Seeing a platonic relationship like the one between Khalil and Peppermint, my character, is rare. They do have a somewhat flirtatious and definitely close connection. There’s chemistry there for sure in both seasons. I love that because it shows that you can have chemistry with somebody and it can be flirtatious and playful, which it is, but it doesn’t need to be like you’re getting married or someone’s going to sexually harass you. It can be in this very real, somewhat sexually tense, but very friendly and non-threatening zone, which is what Khalil and Peppermint have when they’re around each other.”
“The fact that Khalil was able to see that impact enough to be moved by it and for it at least to be the catalyst, or contribute in some way to his growth as an artist, is so beautiful. Metaphorically, it shows that she impacted his art and it showed his growth, but realistically trans people—especially in this day and age—have to overcome a lot of stuff, and anybody that has to overcome challenges and overcome boundaries has hopefully learned some life lessons and is better off for that. A lot of trans people I know have to fight against discrimination and they come out the other side a more self-aware person who is more in touch with themselves and they’ve grown from it and learned some lessons. It’s great to be around people who have learned life lessons and grown and done some self-reflection. So Khalil’s life should be better and be enriched by being around somebody like Peppermint. I love that we get to see that in this show.”
It’s beautifully written, because it’s so funny and buoyant, but there is also a lot to unpack as well. Let’s talk about season two, episode six “The category is love, bitch” written by Grace Edwards. People say they always cry at weddings, but I hadn’t expected to be so moved when I saw you as your character Peppermint being walked down the aisle by her father. Like everything in this series, every element in that episode is so considered and intentional, from the casting to the music and the costumes. What was your reaction to how it was handled?
“I was personally moved too and I loved everything that you mentioned in that episode. Starting with the look and feel of it, Michelle, Grace and the other creatives wanted this wedding to be traditional. Not in a way that anybody’s trying to uphold tradition, but more to show that trans people can be a part of what people consider to be the traditional views and values of life. That includes buying into the very traditional—personally, I think archaic—practice of marriage. That’s my own view, Peppermint the real person not the character, and I don’t plan on getting married myself. But if it’s good for the goose, it’s good for the gander, especially considering that we as a society value the connection of marriage so highly. Trans people should be able to take advantage of that and be a part of that just as much as everybody else does.”
“Trans and queer people have always been a part of the wedding story on screen, but a lot of times we’ve been a part of the helping prepare for the wedding story, making the bridal dress, doing the makeup, doing hair, supporting, wedding planning, and decorating. For once the roles are reversed and a trans woman is able to participate as the subject in the wedding, not the person who choreographed the dance routine at the reception. I think that’s beautiful.”
“As you mentioned, the costumes are gorgeous. They obviously chose trans pride colors—pink, blue and white—for the wedding. That was such a beautiful touch that I didn’t even discover until the moment I got to set. Everything in television moves very quickly and even though it is long hours there are a lot of things that you don’t get a chance to review, look at, or try until the day that you actually shoot a scene. In this case that included Peppermint’s dad. I was like, ‘Oh my gosh, I have a dad?!’ If my own wedding were today, I’m not sure that my dad would be walking me down the aisle, so to be able to have that fairytale on the show and all those pieces come together was incredible.”
“They could have done it any way that they wanted. We could have just been out in a back yard somewhere or in Vegas doing a Britney Spears-style drive thru wedding, but they decided to give us something that was more traditional and it was gift to the community who is watching it. I think it was a gift to the general viewing public, people who are not a part of the LGBTQ+ community too. Surprise, you’re welcome! This is what it’s like to see trans people and queer people included, and everybody involved. Everybody can celebrate. Not everybody at the wedding was trans or queer, it was a mix of people. Being able to show that and how queer and trans people can enrich your lives in more ways than just doing your makeup for your wedding is a gift to people who aren’t queer. It was certainly a gift to me to be able to experience that because they made me feel like a princess that day.”
In terms of the LGBTQ+ supporting cast in that scene, Yves Mathieu East is officiating, series regular Becca Blackwell is one of the guests wiping away a tear, and Monet X Change is one of Peppermint’s bridesmaids, to name but a few. Are these folks who are part of your community off-screen?
“Yeah, they are and the show’s creatives were obviously super intentional with putting together a myriad of people for the scene. Obviously Becca has been part of the regular cast from season one. It was great to see both characters who’d appeared in the show before and then also people who do actually exist in my life. I know Yves personally from the New York nightlife world and we have danced on the dance floor many a time. I’m very close with Monet. I consider her my niece, so it made it more real for me having her there for sure.”
Lastly, what’s your favourite piece of LGBTQ+ culture, or a person who identifies as LGBTQ+; someone or something that’s had an impact on you and resonated with you over the years?
“I didn’t have the most obvious queer icons, stories or examples to point to when I was growing up. We had to do our best to find queer icons where there were none. A lot of times that meant pulling certain mannerisms or actions from film and television, certain divas and people like that. A big influence on me, someone who had a major impact, was definitely Prince. He was obviously a musical genius and icon for everyone, but also an unspoken or unsung queer icon too. Prince was definitely performing queerness, especially in his earlier days, when it comes to gender expression and sexuality. That’s something that really spoke to me. To see a Black man, someone who was assigned male at birth, having the freedom and the dominance to perform in a very sexually expressive, overt way—that was most of the time a very femme expression—blew my mind and I’ll never forget it.”
By James Kleinmann
Survival of the Thickest seasons one and two are now streaming on Netflix.
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