Last year saw global audiences gripped by Richard Gadd’s dark comedy series Baby Reindeer on Netflix, with the show going on to win six Emmys and two BAFTAs. Among other major accolades for the acclaimed series, Gadd’s co-star Nava Mau received Emmy and BAFTA nominations and won an Independent Spirit Award for her standout performance as Teri. After Mau wrapped on Baby Reindeer, she turned her focus to her latest short film—All The Words But The One—as writer, producer, director, and star, guiding every element of production.
Mau led a predominantly LGBTQ+ and BIPOC crew of over fifty and created a built-in Trans Production Fellowship on the film, providing mentorship and on-set experience to seven trans and nonbinary participants. Having been a fellow herself on Sam Feder’s groundbreaking documentary Disclosure, Mau knows firsthand the value of such opportunities for aspiring filmmakers. It was while working on Disclosure as a grip and electric (G&E) department fellow that Mau first met cinematographer Ava Benjamin Shorr (Equal, Fanatical: The Catfishing of Tegan and Sara), whom she asked to join her as her director of photography on All The Words But The One.
Executive produced by Lilly Wachowski and Alex Schmider, the film is set over one evening that sees Maya’s (Mau) partner Jio (Shaan Dasani) hosting his boss Aisha (Dani Woodson) and her boyfriend Santiago (Domenic Kim) at their home for a high stakes dinner, which he hopes will lead to a promotion. Maya and Santiago haven’t seen each other since their explosive relationship ended years ago, and neither expects to be sitting across from each other at a professional dinner with their new romantic partners. Maya teeters through this minefield of delicate power dynamics as she relives some of her most painful and electric memories. Fighting dissociation and embodied trauma, Maya attempts to stay focused on the dinner as the past and present collide in what is ultimately a potent narrative about healing.
Exquisitely shot, it is a deeply poignant film, with a nuanced and captivating central performance by Mau who proves herself to be just as adept at writing and directing. Following an international and US film festival run that included NewFest, the Iris Prize, and Out on Film, All The Words But The One premieres digitally today on Vimeo. Ahead of the release, Nava Mau and Ava Benjamin Shorr spoke exclusively with The Queer Review’s editor James Kleinmann about how the themes of the film resonated with them, how they brought their vision to the screen and what they hope audiences will take away from watching it.
James Kleinmann, The Queer Review: Nava, what were some of things that you wanted to explore as you set about writing the screenplay for the film?
Nava Mau: “It’s hard to put myself back in the place that I was in when I first wrote the film, but I’ll try. I remember feeling such a heaviness. I went on this summer girls trip to Mexico with my best friend. We were swimming and bike riding, but I wasn’t able to enjoy it in the way that I would have done in years prior. I was processing so much that I couldn’t be free. A lot of it was the social aspect, I was so afraid of people and that has never been me. I’ve always been so open and free. It was actually through talking with my friend about it on that trip that I realized that something was really casing me in and it made me start to explore what that was. I realized it was my trauma and I had built all these layers to protect myself.”
“That’s the emotional place that I was in when I began writing. I wanted to explore what would happen if I considered the possibility that maybe people who’ve hurt me in the past could have changed. If I were to meet them again, would they still be a villain in my story? That opened up all of these questions that I really care about in terms of what accountability is, what forgiveness is, what healing is, and, in some ways, what violence is and what the impact of violence in our lives and our relationships is. That was my creative journey with the idea.”
Ava, when you read the script, what were the some of the reasons that you wanted to be involved as the cinematographer?
Ava Benjamin Shorr: “I had known Nava for several years before she reached out to me about shoot this, but to me, knowing someone is never a reason to shoot anything. I’m pretty picky when it comes to what I choose to do because whatever it is, I go into it with everything; time, spirit, and creative energy. When I read the script, I was immediately drawn to the emotional power of it. There was something really charged about the whole film and the arc of it was fascinating to me.”
“I also had some really traumatizing experiences with men after starting transition and I never really knew how to process them. They just kind of existed, floating in my brain, and they just sat there and I didn’t really heal. So I was also drawn in by the idea of having some catharsis or some release, something to do with all of that energy from the past. I think that’s something that Nava and I immediately tapped into. On top of that, I have been someone who tends to dissociate a lot and I immediately could see myself in Nava’s character in the way that she dissociates while being at the dinner table. It was very relatable, straight up.”
Nava: “Ava is actually the person who first pointed out to me that it was dissociation. I had no idea. I was talking with Ava about that scene and she said, ‘Oh, so you dissociate?’ I didn’t know that’s what was happening. So we got to learn from each other in dealing with this trauma together.”
When it came to collaborating, what were some of your initial ideas or guiding principles for how each of you wanted the film to look?
Nava: “I knew from the beginning that the present day needed to be warm in terms of colour and that the past needed to be cold. The other thing that was immediately clear, even in the script, was that the present day was very still, with static shots, not a lot of handheld, and very composed frames. Whereas the past was more erratic and shaky and unpredictable, with a lot of movement. I came in with those ideas and we went through a process of figuring out the details of how exactly to achieve that.”
“One example of a decision we had to make was whether we were going to convey the colour of the space through lighting or through the production design in terms of the warmth contrasting with the cool. It ended up being a combination of both, but we had to decide whether we were going to paint the walls or not. I was like, ‘We absolutely have to paint them!’ But we had to do a camera test for us all to see it. We did one camera test where we had this blue light and immediately I was like, ‘No! It’s so completely wrong’. It felt overbearing and almost like it was taking us out of the story because the narrator was becoming too present in the blue light. I remember that amazing moment when we all saw the painted walls in the location, with the dinner room that warm peach tone and the bedroom painted blue. It allowed it to be these worlds that the characters were living in as opposed to a lens that the audience was seeing them through.”
Ava: “I credit Nava a lot for choosing to paint the walls because on many short films and independent productions your resources are so strapped that it can be really easy to overlook the power of doing something like that, which costs money and time and is inconvenient. When Nava was showing me references for how she wanted these rooms to look, it was is pretty apparent to me that it wasn’t going to be the lighting, it was the actual wall colour. Nava having the confidence to be like, ‘let’s do this, let’s paint the walls’, signaled to me how strong of a director she is.”
“As the director, and even as the DP, you’re often having to choose things that are hard or inconvenient for other people on set, but you’re always there to be making the thing that you’re there to make. You have go down two paths at the same time, of keeping up crew morale but also making sure the vision is intact. So I was really impressed by that decision that Nava made and I was 100% fully there for it. When I see the richness of the colours in those scenes I know that you could not get that by lighting. In fact, it would have looked messy and weird if we had tried to accomplish those things through lighting. Those wall colours stand out still. We’ll live with this film for as long as we’re around and I think we’re always going know we made the right choice whenever we watch it. That was the best decision to make and I love those images still.”
Ava, is there anything you wanted to add about how you went about creating the distinctive look between the past and the present-day scenes?
Ava: “From the beginning, it was pretty apparent that we wanted them to look different because we cut back and forth between them so much. It really came down to what the difference was going to be comprised of and the way that we expressed that. We found that through doing camera tests with Panavision. They did a ton of things to help us out on this film. We tested a whole bunch of different lenses and camera settings at Panavision and we ended up shooting on the Alexa Mini. The present-day sequences were shot in Super 35 mode. I tend to like things a little bit grainier, so we shot it at 1600 ISO to give it a little more texture.”
“I had shot another project in Super 16 mode on the Alexa Mini and I thought it looked really good, so I pitched that idea to Nava, we tested it and ended up shooting the past sequences in Super 16 mode with Super 16 lenses. ln the colour grade, we also pushed the looks in different directions. Technically, that’s what we did to build the look and also there was the difference in camera movement that Nava spoke about, in terms of the still versus the erratic.”
“I want to quote something that Nava said to me, because when I’m doing projects the look and the tone that is created is developed through camera tests and lots and lots of preproduction conversations. It’s not just a case of, ‘I think this looks good, let’s go with it.’ There were these things that Nava would say that I’d write down in preproduction and this is something that she said back in April, 2023. I still read it now and I’m like, ‘Yeah, I love this!’ Nava said, “In the past, their intimacy together was either electric and intoxicating or it was raw and sore. In the past she doesn’t have walls, but in the present she does”. I take those kind of notes and I’m like, ‘Okay, how do we articulate those things visually when we’re shot listing?”
How about the moment where the past comes crashing into the present in a way, when we see Maya and Santiago from the past on the dining table in the present, what was your approach to that sequence?
Ava: “There are actually three different spaces that we inhabit in the film. There’s the past, there’s the present, and then there’s the middle space where they collide. We ended up going with a very different look for that middle space, especially that dinner table scene, where there was a disorientation. Nava why don’t you take the lead narratively and psychologically, and then I’ll talk about how we interpreted that.”
Nava: “The middle space was not initially written as a separate space. It was more like the way you just described it, James, where it’s like the past is coming into the present. As we were figuring out how to shoot it, we came up with the concept of the middle space and we found this lensbaby. It was a Frankensteined lens that somebody had been tinkering with at Panavision and it ended up being perfect.”
“The middle space is meant to be within Maya’s psyche, whereas one of the reasons that we decided to shoot anamorphic for most of the film was because we wanted to include all four characters as much as possible. In every shot that we could, we wanted to get the whole room and all the action in. But the middle space needed to be so much within her mind and the limitations of it and the disorientation of where she was at and what she was feeling. It’s meant to convey that her body is actually in both places at that time and that the trauma is living in her mind and her body. She’s torn, she’s not fully there because the trauma is pulling her into the past.”
Ava: “I think that gives a reason for why the lensing feels so aware. The effect is a bit like a classic “I’m high” sequence in a movie where it’s warpy and the lens is askew and the properties are messed up. But this is a completely different way to use it. The way that we did that was through using that lensbaby Nava mentioned. Panavision had one with a structure on it with four bars that hold an accordion-style snout in place with a lens attached at the end. If you take the bars off, it becomes like an elephant tusk and you can manipulate the lens free form. When we were shooting with it, it was like I was the focus and the pan and the tilt all through the little elephant tusk lens. So it was about feeling out what the blocking was and how messed up the look was going to be. It was so visceral when we were shooting it. I was like, ‘Whoa, this feels really right. When I play through the trauma in my head, it feels raw and messy like this.’ There’s something very interesting about that choice that we made and how we got there and it feels appropriate, not just stylistic.”
There is a beautifully poignant scene at the end of the film where we have an idea of what is being said between Maya and Jio but we don’t hear the words. As viewers, we end up watching them from outside the window of their home. Why did you decide on that approach?
Nava: “In that final scene, I wanted to convey that no one is entitled to know about someone else’s relationship and no one is entitled to know about someone else’s healing process. So often, there is a lot of pressure on survivors to speak out and to publicly hold people who’ve harmed them accountable. I think that is a reflection of a culture of punishment and that’s not always what a survivor needs. A survivor might just need to tell one person and that should happen on the survivor’s terms and when it feels right to that person. What they’re talking about is just between Maya and Jio and it’s not for us to know.”
How did you assemble the cast?
Nava: “We had an extensive casting process which included a group improv session that people were invited to as chemistry reads. We ended up with Domenic Kim as Santiago, Shaan Dasani as Jio, and Dani Woodson Aisha, as well as the incredible talents, Celine Jackson and Sis Thee Doll, playing Maya’s friends in a flashback. It was so incredible working with them. It’s like we lived a whole life in just a couple weeks. That might sound silly, and maybe people don’t get it, but it doesn’t matter because we get it. We know what we shared and how special the experience was and how every single member of the cast brought something personal to the story and to their role. It wouldn’t be this film without all of these people. I feel incredibly lucky that I got to work with them.”
I’m guessing that you met on Disclosure as you both worked on it? Nava, there was a Trans Production Fellowship on that documentary which you were part of, why was it important to you to have a Trans Fellowship Program on All The Words But The One?
Nava: “Yes, shout out to Sam fader the director of Disclosure because the only reason I met Ava was because of the Fellowship Program. I worked as the G&E fellow, so I was building c-stands and learning how to tie knots. Beyond that, especially because it was a documentary set, there was a lot of downtime where I could talk to the crew. One day, very bright eyed and bushy tailed, I introduced myself to Ava and she was so kind and welcoming. She was gracious and asked if we wanted to get dinner together. So that’s how we met and I learned so much from her, even though she wasn’t my direct mentor. Most of these kinds of programs are structured so that you are shadowing one person and aside from that you’re supposed to disappear on set, but the Trans Fellowship is not built that way. It’s about integration and empowerment and networking was specifically built into that fellowship. It’s literally the only reason that I was able to to work with Ava as as my DP for this project.”
“There was no question that this production would also have a fellowship. I think what’s so special about an independent film—especially one that I have complete ownership over—is that I don’t have to ask for permission from anybody in terms of what I’m making, how I’m making it, or who I’m making it with. So there was no way that I was going to have a film production that didn’t include lots of trans people and the fellowship is a perfect way to bring more trans people onto set.”
“I’m so often the only trans woman in the room, I’m so often the only Latina in the room, and I’m also sometimes the only woman in the room. I’ll never forget this moment when I was naked on the dining table and people were flying around, changing lights and doing production design, moving around plates and food. It was a moment when the fellowship made me feel safer and more connected because I realized that the person who was flying around me working on set was another trans Latina, Liza, who was the production design fellow. Lisa really shone in that role and by the end of the week was doing the job. I don’t think I would have felt as safe on this set if it hadn’t been for all the trans fellows who were there because of the fellowship.”
Ava: “While I have the chance, I’d just like to say that I was so impressed with Nava as a director and as a writer and as someone who was acting in it. I do think she’s a uniquely talented individual because I’ve seen people attempt to do all those things in one and it falls flat. I feel like Nava did it in such an impressive way. When we met on Disclosure, I thought, ‘there’s something really interesting about this person’. I think that all of her talents have really come to blossom.”
All The Words But The One has played film festivals throughout the US and internationally, what is your intention for the film as you put it out in the world for everyone to watch?
Nava: “I hope that the film encourages people to rethink any assumptions they might have about violence and healing and what is possible within our society. I hope that people will ask whatever questions come up for them in watching the film and be open to the conversations that come from those questions.”
By James Kleinmann
Watch All The Words But The One now on Vimeo:
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