With Luca Guadagnino’s intoxicating 1950s Mexico City-set feature Queer, based on the cult novel of the same name by William S. Burroughs, now playing in US theaters nationwide from A24, writer, actor, and comedian Drew Droege speaks exclusively with The Queer Review’s editor James Kleinmann about taking on the role of “judgy drunk queen” John Dumé. During the conversation, Droege shares his approach to portraying the memorable character, the guidance that Guadagnino gave him on set, his experience of working opposite lead actor Daniel Craig, his interactions with costume designer Jonathan Anderson, his impressions of the finished film, what John Waters’ seal of approval means to him, and his take on the word “queer”. Read Glenn Gaylord’s review of Queer.
James Kleinmann, The Queer Review: congratulations on your performance in Queer.
Drew Droege: “Thank you so much. I’m so grateful to be a part of it. I love it so much and it was an amazing experience.”
Were you already familiar with Burroughs’ book before the role came along?
“I knew of it, obviously, and I had seen Naked Lunch but I hadn’t read any of Burroughs’ work until I got involved in this. Then I read the book before I went and did the movie. It’s amazing and impossible to get through. It’s about 100 pages long and it’s so difficult and dense and heroin rich. It’s a wild ride of a book. I think the film does a great job of capturing that vibe, but then also making sense out of what is actually happening through it, because it’s a short but difficult read.”
You play John Dumé, how would you describe him?
“He’s a pre-Stonewall era gay who has fled down to Mexico. We don’t really know why, but he’s part of a group of gay men called the Green Lantern Boys. When Jason Schwartzman’s character, Joe, describes them in the film, he basically says “the rest of them are a bunch of screaming fags”. So I guess it’s a very loud and proud group of out gay men from all over the world who are living their lives down in Mexico. They are the other side of what it’s like to be gay from how the Daniel Craig, Drew Starkey and Jason Schwartzman characters are experiencing it. John Dumé is definitely the judgy drunk queen at the bar, which is a very fun part to play!”
What was your way into the character, was there anything that helped you get there?
“I’m so outside in as an actor. I had this crazy hairpiece and these amazing clothes by Jonathan Anderson, so I was in these silks and these high-waisted pants. I had this hand rolled cigarette and an old fashioned and a book of Proust. So I had all of that around me to shape who this person is. Who goes to the bar with that much?! Who goes so dressed up, sits there and just gets black out and reads Proust and judges people?! It was all there for me.”
I love that he has his place at the bar and we get a moment where we see everything that he has brought there with him. He’s got that red lollipop that he’s sucking on and that bunch of metallic flowers. You do some great acting with the Proust book.
“Oh, thank you. That was all Luca. He had the idea of me going, tap, tap, tap with it, and he was like, ‘Do this with the book’. It was all pageantry. There was a Marcel Duchamp photograph that Luca loved of him holding these flowers and there was this shape in it that he wanted to capture for John Dumé. But who leaves the house with all of those things? But also, why not?! This is very much a film about people who are presenting themselves in a certain way. Like, ‘look at all these things’. Like a crow with all my shiny objects.”
What was it like being on a set run by Luca Guadagnino and in what ways did he help you to shape your performance?
“Well, he’s incredible, he’s a visionary, and when you’re working with him you’re in great hands, so you just do what he asks you to do. We did a lot of dream sequence stuff that was so fun to be a part of. It almost felt like being in a music video at times. It was like, ‘Let’s make art, let’s make shapes, let’s do it!’ In terms of the scene and the character, he gave me really simple, great direction. It was tricky because I’m playing a very larger-than-life character and I wanted to blend into the world. I do a lot of theatre acting and sketch comedy in drag basements all around the world and so I wanted to make sure that I was in the world of the film with the camera really close to me and next to actors like this. Luca was very sensitive to that and he gave me really nice notes and helped me to relax in the world of it. I didn’t realize until I read interviews with the other actors that everyone was feeling very nervous going into this because we all wanted to get it right. We were doing a Luca film and we were also doing this William S. Burroughs classic novel that had never been filmed before. It was a very fun job, but I think everybody was like, ‘I want to make sure that I’m playing my piece of the puzzle in the best way possible’.”
You mentioned costume designer Jonathan Anderson’s creations. Did you get to interact with him on set?
“I did. I got to hang with him a lot. I immediately loved his vibe. He had incredible ideas for what we were going to do with my character and how he was going design me. We did an amazing fitting and he was so supportive and lovely. He was always there adjusting things and making sure everything was right. He was so creatively involved while we were shooting. It wasn’t like he just picked things out and left. He was very much a part of the blood of the film.”
Jonathan was telling me how Daniel Craig was really knowledgeable and invested in things like the shoes that he wore as the character and how his suit hung on his body, which I think speaks to his commitment to this role, and probably the craft of acting more generally. He embodies the role so boldly and he’s not afraid to be awkward as his character, William Lee, who is essentially a version of Burroughs.
“It’s phenomenal. First of all, at the table reads that we did, Daniel was always asking me, ‘How do you think we should play this scene? What do you need from me in the scene?’ Most actors don’t do that. They’re about themselves and they’re there just showing up. He was so collaborative and supportive. Then when the camera was rolling he was so in character that I blew my lines on the first take because he was so good. I thought he hated me and I went through all my insecurity of like, ‘Daniel Craig hates me so much and hates what I’m doing!’ Then I was like, ‘No Drew, he’s acting! His character is supposed to hate your character!’ Then when cut is called he’s this lovely, warm person. But he was so committed to being this character which is a very specific type of person who doesn’t necessarily exist today. Someone who really has no place in this world. He was married to a woman, now he’s realizing that he’s queer. He’s trying to shake off a heroin addiction. He’s got all this masculinity that’s been heaped upon him. He’s grappling with all these things. He does incredible work and he deserves every bit of the accolades that he’s getting.”
I love the scene in the Ship Ahoy where John Dumé is playing with the fact that William Lee is desperate for any bit of knowledge that he might have about Drew Starkey’s character Eugene Allerton, especially whether he’s queer or not.
“These days you can just go up to someone and say, ‘Are you gay?’ And it’s like, yay, nay, or whatever. But even just a few years ago, people were like, you can’t ask someone that. It was implied that it was a horrible thing to ask someone. Back in 1950, you had to really thread that needle. You could get killed, definitely imprisoned, and humiliated for sure. So Daniel’s character has to find the queen at the bar. He’s like, this one will know because this one has everyone’s number! So that’s why he goes through me and has to figure that out. John Dumé took Drew’s character out for a night to try to figure him out. You had to do this kind of dance back then to explore that.”
I love the scene where Daniel’s character is talking about the moment when he decided that he would be out and proud and unapologetic about his queerness. He talks about his friend Bobo encouraging him to do that. Daniel told me that scene was cut from the film at one point and then got put back in.
“There’s another scene that was cut from the film where he does an impression of me that I never got to see. He asked me to do some recordings. So I recorded something for him to listen to. Next time that I see Luca or someone from the film I’m going to ask to see that scene because he’s so good. When he goes into that Bobo character, he’s got this amazing different life and different energy. You see a relaxation in him that we all understand once we come out. There’s this weight that gets lifted. You have a freedom of expression that you didn’t have before and it’s beautiful to watch him go through that.”
It’s a beautiful film and the sets are gorgeous to look at, what were they like to play on?
“We shot it at the Cinecittà film studio in Rome which is this hallowed ground where Fellini made films and major movies like The English Patient and Gangs of New York have been shot there. It’s old and it looks like the 50s when you’re walking through it. It holds that magic of old timey Hollywood. The sets all felt small and sort of claustrophobic. In the party scenes, I remember feeling almost like I was in a capsule. The ceiling was really low and I think they wanted it to feel like you’re inside this very claustrophobic world. Everything was built to look like it was Mexico in 1950.”
Have you ever been to Mexico City?
“I never have, but I would love to go. It’s one of the places that everyone says is incredible and it’s supposed to be very queer and very European. The food is meant to be amazing. So one day, I’d love to go there.”
I definitely recommend it. I was on the jury of Mix Mexico LGBTQ Film Festival this summer, and I was there last year too. Obviously I wasn’t there in the 50s, but the film feels like it authentically captures the city from what I know of it.
“From what I understand, it’s very hard to find that look in Mexico now. So I think they built the sets for that reason and Luca obviously wanted it to feel like a film from that era. That’s the vibe, for sure.”
You got to see the finished film at the Los Angeles premiere last month. It was held at the DGA Theater, so it must have felt like home for you with having gone to so many Outfest screenings there over the years.
“Oh, it was unbelievable. It was this really beautiful full circle moment for me because, like you said, the DGA is where all the Outfest screenings have been. I’ve had so many things that I’ve been lucky enough to be a part of that screened there through Outfest. We filmed my solo show, Bright Colors and Bold Patterns, with Broadway HD and that screened through Outfest at the DGA. So it did really feel like coming home and getting to see the film there was so special.”
I’ve seen the film three times now and I would recommend repeat viewings if people have the chance to revisit it. It has really got under my skin and I plan on watching it again.
“Anytime I’m in anything it takes me two or three times to be objective because I’m focused on myself on the first viewing. I’m like, ‘I can’t believe you look like that’ and ‘why did you deliver that line that way?’ Or looking out for what got cut. I’m thinking about all of that and it’s this very overwhelming experience. I still genuinely loved the film, but I’m excited to watch it again. It’s definitely one you want to let wash over you.”
“I had a friend who was at the LA premiere and she said at the beginning she was going, ‘Come on, come on, something happen’. Then she realized, ‘Oh, I’m approaching this the wrong way’ and about 15 minutes in she was able to relax and sort of let it massage her. She said, ‘By the end, I was so in love with where it was going’. It is going to tell you how to watch it. I feel like on a second viewing, or a third, a fourth—or even a 12th viewing—you really understand what it’s actually doing to you and you can follow along with what’s happening. It’s not a very plot-driven film. It’s not a mystery. There’s no big twist or anything. It’s more about the vibe.”
I think the pace will probably be a surprise for some people, not just from the films that we’re used to now, but from Tiktok videos that are five seconds long.
“I love international films because they have such a different pace and ways of telling a story. Obviously, Luca is Italian and every Luca film has a completely different vibe and energy. He’s so aware of what he’s doing. He’s like, ‘This is what this is going to be and feel like for you’. He has no expectation on him to do that American film. I love Spielberg movies, but a lot of American films have followed in that model. Which is great structurally, but it doesn’t fit every story and it really limits how you can tell a story effectively.”
When it when it comes to writing and performing, how important has it been for you to create your own work?
“Oh, it’s been essential. I’ve had to do it and I am so grateful that I’m able to do it. I got to be in this film because Luca was a fan of my Chloe videos and we met and he was like, ‘Come be in this’. So that came from my own work. Getting to write my own plays and putting them up in front of people, that’s where I get to show my voice. I feel very grateful when I get to be a little part in something, but when you’re creating yourself you’re driving and you’re saying this is the story I want to tell, this is the person I want to be. I would not have any career if it weren’t for creating my own work.”
You’re working on something new, Messy White Gays, can you give us a flavour of that?
“Yes, that’s a new play that I’m developing and hopefully we’ll have a production going next year. I’ve been doing a bunch of readings of it in New York and LA that we’ve had incredible casts doing. It’s an 80-minute five-actor murder New York horrible gay white men comedy. It’s been very exciting to work on. I’m in the play with four other actors, and we’ll have a really amazing set and a dead body. It’s going be fun!”
Talking of theatre, one of the highlights in New York this year has been, Oh, Mary!, which I know you are a fan of. What impressed you about the play and Cole Escola’s performance in it?
“Cole’s performance is legendary. I’ve gotten to see it twice. I’m so inspired that they were like, ‘This is what makes me laugh. This is what I like. I’m just going to put this thing up’. I remember hearing about it through friends and they were like, ‘Cole is doing this really fun sounding show about Mary Todd Lincoln and it’s going to be at the Lortel in March. I was going to be in New York then anyway and I was like, ‘Oh, I can’t wait to go see that’. Then it blew up in this really incredible way. But it wasn’t from them chasing any other voices or any other rainbows. They were like, ‘This is what makes me laugh’. And it’s so queer and now it’s on Broadway eight times a week and it’s the number one thing people are going to see because they’re hearing about it. It’s a great lesson in staying in your lane and making what you want to see versus chasing it. We live in a gig economy where everybody’s saying, ‘What’s trending now, what’s the popular thing? Everybody likes this now, so write about this or create this’. Cole didn’t do that and is rising above everything else. I think that it’s the sign of great art when you’re not worried about what other people think or what pleases anybody else. I absolutely loved it.”
What’s your favourite piece of LGBTQ+ culture or a person who identifies as LGBTQ+; someone or something that’s had an impact on you and resonated with you over the years? Last time we spoke you chose the Greg Berlanti film the Broken Hearts Club, so I’ll ask you to pick something else this time.
“I have to go with John Waters. Hairspray was my way in. The very first time I saw it there was immediately something about when those opening credits came up. I was like, ‘I’m connected with this. I understand this’. Then I got to discover all his other films. Nothing makes me laugh harder than Serial Mom and his films have stood the test of time. They are audacious, they’re insane, they’re wickedly funny, but they’re also deeply humanist. The good guys win. The message is always don’t pick on the freak. John is almost 80 years old and is still the biggest badass on the planet. I’m so lucky to be on a planet where John Waters exists. Every time he speaks and does one-person shows I’m there and I’m at church. He is absolutely an icon. I’m so happy that he’s getting his flowers because every day more people get to know his work and learn it and love it.”
I interviewed him earlier this year just a few days after he’d had that car accident.
“Obviously it’s horrible that anybody goes through something like that and you want them to be okay, but it was very grim news for me because I’ve read every interview with him and everything that I can find about him and he’s always said the worst way to die would be in a car accident. He’s said it a million times. So when I heard he was in a car accident, I was like, it’s just one of those things, don’t put that out there in the world. I’m so glad he was okay. He’s indestructible. He’s like Cher. What else are you going to throw at this man?!”
John Waters leads us back to Queer because it was on his top 10 list of the best films of the year published in Vulture.
“It made my day when I saw that. I couldn’t believe it. On a very selfish level, it was so cool to know that I was in something that he’d enjoyed. But it means a lot that a queer icon likes a film called Queer because we’re very judgmental of our own work and we can be very opinionated. So I love that he loves it. And he loves snowballing!”
Obviously, it’s based on a book called Queer and I love the fact that the film is simply called Queer. People use the word a lot in the film, what does it mean to you?
“It was a word that I really hated growing up. I was bullied with it and it had such negative connotations, but I’ve come to love it and embrace it. I find it so all-encompassing. It’s very hard to say LGBTQIA+ casually in conversation. But queer also covers sensibility. It’s not just about sexuality. I think you can be cis and hetero and also queer. You can be alternative. It’s about seeing the world differently and it’s a beautiful umbrella of a word. I think it captures more my sensibility than gay necessarily does, so I find myself saying it more and more. Like, ‘as a queer man’ or ‘as a queer person’ versus saying ‘as a gay man’. I’ve come to love it and I think it’s really great. Although it’s really funny, I had a straight girlfriend who was like, ‘I just saw you in ‘Queers’, it was so great’. And I thought, ‘Queers’ makes it sound very different. Putting an ‘s’ on it sounds so judgmental. So I was like, ‘Oh, I don’t know about that, but anyway!”
Yeah, isn’t funny how that ‘s’ makes all the difference.
“She didn’t mean anything by it, but it’s that weird thing about putting that ‘s’ on it. Like with the movie Kids, the title has always driven me crazy because it sounds like, ‘This is Kids! Deal with it!’ I always found that title very judgmental and I felt like ‘Queers’ sounds like as well. Like, ‘Look at them, those two!’ Rather than the idea of Queer being much more ethereal and for everyone in their own understanding of what that means. Also, in this film, it has the meaning of being disconnected from your body and trying to shake off heroin and just trying to move through world. I think there’s a lot on top of the word aside from sexuality in the film.”
By James Kleinmann
Queer is now playing in US theaters nationwide from A24.
